The vote, the Abbott, the pharmaceutical company, and the drugs
It seems that Tony Abbott does not believe in democracy. If we are to believe the allegations made by a Pharmaceutical industry leader aired on the ABC’s Lateline last night that Health Minister Tony Abbott has exerted some pressure in his portfolio area for companies to be compliant to his beliefs about RU486.
Several pharmaceutical companies claimed that part of the reason that RU486 hadn’t been taken up was because they feared a political backlash and the Minister’s wrath.
Full response from Health Minister Tony Abbott:
“My views about abortion and RU 486 are well known. I think that up to 100,000 abortions a year is far too many and that women who believe they have no alternative to abortion already have access to the procedure. I am on the parliamentary record as doubting whether any reputable pharmaceutical company would seek marketing approval for this drug.
I have had no discussions with any pharmaceutical company representative about RU 486. I am not aware that any pharmaceutical company plans to seek marketing approval for RU 486.
My staff deny “warning off” any pharmaceutical company thinking of seeking marketing approval for RU 486.
In any event, marketing approval for drugs is in the hands of the Therapeutic Goods Administration, a reputable expert body which makes decisions at arm’s length from ministers.
In my judgment, it’s highly unprofessional of Lateline to publicise an allegation which no one is prepared to make on-the-record about an alleged threat which could not actually be carried out under Australia’s drug approval system.”
This is what Senator Lyn Allison had to say regarding the allegations:
“I think it’s a deeply shocking revelation that the pharmaceutical companies are making. It’s not surprising to some of us who know that Minister Abbott’s objection to abortion is so strong that I think he would take whatever steps were required.”
I would like to see this investigated so that we can potentially charge Abbott with misuse of ministerial power and thereby force him to accept the outcome of the concscience vote, and a woman’s right to choose.
Image from here
June 1st, 2006 at 8:01 pm
I was watching too, and I am with you.
Abbot is a zealot.
No place for a zealot in a democratic parliament.
If he was Muslim, he would be a suicide bomber.
June 1st, 2006 at 9:07 pm
I doubt that the zealot will be held to account Brownie.
I have no trouble believing this type of sneaky, threatening tactic is in his personality- you just have to watch his ego and arrogance in question time.
June 2nd, 2006 at 8:08 am
Not only does Abbott not believe in democracy, he has a big problem with truth.
There are not 100,000 abortions performed in Australia annually. The 100,000 figure comes from the Medicare number for a therapeutic D&C, some which are performed to accomplish pregnancy termination and some to clear out the uterus after a spontaneous miscarriage. There is no way to discern between D&Cs performed primarily for pregnancy termination and those performed after a miscarriage. Physicians say that the actual number of pregnancy terminations is closer to 25,000 per year.
Abbott KNOWS about these figures- but refuses to deal with the truth. Clearly, Abbott’s obsession with his religion is preventing him from properly performing his ministerial position for the benefit of the 75% of Australians who are not Catholics.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:31 pm
I was going to comment on the “100,000 abortions a year” factoid popping up again, but I see you’ve beaten me to it Weez. Could you please point me to some useful links (e.g. where physicians say more like 25,000) as the 100,000 furphy appeared recently in the AGE letters page – if I see it one more time I’ll have no choice but to complain to the editor.
June 2nd, 2006 at 5:50 pm
Someone needs to tell him that it’s RU486 not RU666. There is no place for Abbott’s religion in contemporary political/ethical discourse.
I wish that he’d apply his zealotry to a cause such as eliminating homelessness.
June 3rd, 2006 at 4:29 pm
We could tell him homeless people have abortions too. Probably help them much with their homelessness but you can imagine the Abbott response:
TA: “100,000 homeless people have abortions every year – we need to do everything we can to reduce this carnage.”
Everyone else: “What about getting them homes?”
TA: “Not until they stop aborting their children! We must have moral priorities.”
June 3rd, 2006 at 4:31 pm
Damn Saturday typing – “Probably WOULDN”T help them much with their homelessness…”
June 4th, 2006 at 8:58 pm
Weez, a pregnancy outcomes study by the South Australian government (definitely not biased towards the pro-life side) concluded that 1 in 3 women will have abortions in south australia. this is the only state that has mandatory reporting of abortions carried out. lyn allison used this shocking 1 in 3 figure, of whom she is one herself, to justify RU486. pro-aborts will talk about how common abortion is when it suits them, and how exaggerated it is at other times.
many more human beings are killed by IVF, the morning after pill and an unknown number by the contraceptive pill. personally i think 100,000 is a conservative estimate. however many it is, it is tragic, and there is no point debating the numbers. is your opposition to the iraq war contingent upon how many thousands of lives are lost? human life is sacred, and when we start arguing over how many thousand are dying, i wonder why more people aren’t questioning the ideology that is bringing about the deaths in the first place.
June 4th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Marcel, you ignorant slut.
A zygote is not a baby. Get over it.
We are still awaiting your submission of your postal address so that we may begin to forward to you all the sanitary articles we have collected which may contain fertilised eggs that have been spontaneously flushed from various uteri.
Offer comes with a free microscope.
You just might save a baby.
June 4th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
If Marcel was a Muslim HE would be a suicide bomber too.
Every Sperm Is Sacred.
What is it about these men who panic at the thought of ‘spilled seed’ ?
I really think it is a psychiatric illness, as yet undescribed in journals.
Any person who thinks an oral contraceptive ‘kills babies’, should not be allowed to vote.
Read my lips Marcel: oral contraceptives are taken daily every day. they work by raising the hormone level so that the womans uterus thinks it is ALREADY pregnant.
You should like that.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
marcel white,
*sigh*…still missing the choice bit aren’t you and thereby completely missing out the woman’s body bit huh?
You know you should have a word with the intelligent designer and get the uterus moved to a better place… like perhaps your spare room?
June 4th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Suki – I think, as evidenced by his past comments, that Marcel generally not only ignores a woman’s choice but he generally misses the point. He also argues in circles, cites dodgy statistics, and lacks sensitivity, understanding, a clue and any respect for women.
One really hopes Marcel doesn’t breed and spread his odious ideas. Of course, one suspects Marcel’s views will limit his choice of partner.
June 5th, 2006 at 7:59 am
Not like it needs much clarification… but Marcel can’t tell the difference between a woman and a petri dish. Would ‘splain a lot about his sex life (or lack thereof).
OH, if only… Marcel could become pregnant. Then the lights would come on… but not before.
June 5th, 2006 at 8:56 am
Helen said: “Could you please point me to some useful links (e.g. where physicians say more like 25,000)”
Marie Stopes Centre Australia says the number of D&Cs on Medicare is 73,000, blowing the 100,000 figure completely out of the water. Only a fraction of the 73,000 D&Cs are actual pregnancy terminations.
From the Marie Stopes Aus website:
June 5th, 2006 at 9:46 am
You KNOW all those whores do is CLAIM they would be mentally harmed by a pregnancy. Those same bloody whores probably induce those miscarriages. Murderers.
Women shouldn’t be in charge of their bodies. The Godless whores are nothing but baby killers. No MAN has ever “CHOSE” an abortion, so logically men should make the decisions!
June 5th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
That was very undergradute ‘Whiter’.
I was praying at the abortion clinic this morning and about 17 girls walked in. In all this talk about thousands and numbers, I think you forget that every single woman, on her own, who ends up at the abortion clinic has a tragic story of incalculable grief. My heart goes out to anyone who ends up at one of those abortion mills. I see so many of the girls don’t want to go in there, but their parents, boyfriends or partners family are dragging them in…
The reason people react in such an emotional way on this issue, and especially at the clinic, is that they realise deep down what they are doing is wrong. I’d suggest to you, Weez especially, that you go down to the nearest clinic and observe what goes on. It is not some glorious excercise in human rights fulfillment as the women file in. It is a dark, sordid, exploitative place where mant lives are ended, and others are changed forever.
BTW, I’ll be in Sydney in a couple of weeks and I’d be more than happy to soundly defeat your arguments over a beer Mr Weez.
June 5th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
Marcel honey I know you are only 21 so I won’t get angry, but please be informed that there are many many married men who actually slap their wives about when informed of a pregnancy.
A man in Creswick hit his pregnant wife in the stomach with a cricket bat in an attempt to avoid fatherhood (visit my link to the news report at Australian Womens Forum). Babies are precious and should only be raised by willing loving parents. I was not, so I know first hand how vile it can be for the kid.
June 5th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
Dear Minister Abbott and Marcel White
Here from todays Herald-Sun is the story of a child whose mother very likely would have taken RU486 the moment she realised she was pregnant to his violent father:
“Police said the attack on Brandon was the culmination of months of abuse by Ripper, who is 192cm tall.
Ripper admitted hitting the boy with his hand, a plastic spoon and a belt, but told police he’d never hit him above the waist.
The boy was freed from a locked Morwell home unit after police with a warrant forced entry about 6.20pm on April 16 last year.
They said Brandon was hunched over and struggling to walk, and too frightened to give any details of his home life.
Ambulance officers horrified by his injuries said it was clear he had been “used as somebody’s punching bag”.
Brandon was taken to Traralgon Hospital by ambulance and transferred the next day to Monash Medical Centre.
Doctors documented 35 areas of injury on the boy’s head, arms, chest, abdomen, back, buttocks, legs and penis.
His injuries included a fractured jaw, a healing fracture of one rib and possible bite marks on his left and right cheeks.
A pediatrician reported Brandon appeared to be a battered child whose injuries suggested repeated deliberately inflicted trauma. ”
***************
this poor little kid will be psycho all his life and wish he had not been born to his stupid parents.
June 5th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
“You KNOW all those whores do is CLAIM they would be mentally harmed by a pregnancy. Those same bloody whores probably induce those miscarriages. Murderers.”
This is a perfect example of why the feminist movement is still vitally relevant today. It is disturbing in this day and age how many men hold these views.
June 5th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
a miscarriage is incredibly painful at even early stage pregnancy.
imagine passing a kidney stone in the middle of having the worst hangover of your life, and you are getting near the feeling.
I suppose Marcel thinks anybody can cause a miscarriage by drinking gin in a hot bath. kcuffwit.
June 5th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Marcel, are you still talking? Personally, you think that 100,000 is a conservative estimate do you? Are you linked to all women by Professor X’s cerebro or something? Have you heard of this phenomenon called consciousness? As weez said, a zygote is not a human life. If you really think all this shit, then take it to the logical conclusion and cut your balls off because you know that everyday you’re producing little miracles that are being re-absorbed into your body when you don’t use them, never to return…
Oh dear, feels a little confrontational when someone else suggests that you take a particular course of action with your body doesn’t it.
June 5th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
Folks, ‘Marcel Whiter’ is posting from a different IP address than ‘Marcel White.’ Consequently, I took ‘Whiter’s’ comment as deep sarcasm… albeit more than a tick inflammatory.
June 5th, 2006 at 6:37 pm
when I clicked on the name it lead to Right To Life Australia so hopefully weez, that is also part of the sarcasm?
June 5th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
If there is any confusion, I DID NOT post that abusive message, and I am annoyed if anyone has been left with that impression. I only comment on these forums because I care about what my contemporaries are doing, and I detect some sincerity in their wrongfulness, so I make the effort to engage. I try to be polite.
I don’t understand why others would make the effort of creating an account similar to my name just to be inflammatory. Anyway, God bless you all, and I thank your mothers for cooperating with the Lord and giving you life… π
June 5th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
Brownie, when you post a comment on here, you can enter any website URL you like. I guess that’s the one ‘Whiter’ happened to like.
Comments from Mr ‘Whiter’ (and possibly Mr White as well) will likely meet the moderation queue in future.
June 5th, 2006 at 7:44 pm
It is not some glorious excercise in human rights fulfillment as the women file in – Marcel – you’re an idiot. At no point did anyone say it’s an off-the-cuff, spur-of-the-moment or even easy decision for a woman to choose to have or not have an abortion. Nor did anyone suggest forcing someone to have an abortion without consent is something ANYONE supports. But you yet again miss the point – IT”S ABOUT CHOICE. And since you, I and about 50% of the population don’t have a uterus it’s NOT our choice. I suggest you grow up.
June 5th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
marcel white Says:
“BTW, Ill be in Sydney in a couple of weeks and Id be more than happy to soundly defeat your arguments over a beer Mr Weez.”
Marcel, your arguments are utterly nonsensical nonsequiturs to someone who couldn’t possibly care less about your faerie tales of mysterious disembodied yet omnipotent misogynists.
Moreover, I’d sooner eat a bowl of my own vomit with a teaspoon than be anywhere near you. There’s not enough beer in Australia to dissuade me from that point, either.
June 5th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
apologies to Suki for having this debate with Mr White in her space, as he is yet another of the repulsive commentors too scared to actually have their OWN blog .. but I would suggest that instead of bothering the lovely Mr Weez, that Whitey get himself to the prison to discuss contraception with this gut –
” Despite his shocking record, Damien Paul Ripper is likely to spend only 18 months in jail for giving the boy a broken jaw and a flogging that left bruises and welts over most of his body.”
Read my earlier post for details of this poor little frightened hungry boy found alone in a flat with painful chronic injuries. Where is Your God for this child you papist onanist White.
June 5th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
On an unrelated note marcel, I see you do not extend an invite to have a beer in Sydney with me.
I am curious, are you such a cliche that you also believe that women don’t drink or are you actually intimidated by me and any strong women?
You know I could gather a big group of grrrls and we could all meet for a round of drinks and we could swap stories.
You could tell us in person why you believe that we do not have reproductive rights, or choice, and we could tell you how that makes us feel!
Let me know where you are staying and we’ll eagerly come to you.
June 5th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Suki – Since I sadly can’t be there – could you take some snaps? Perhaps a before and after shot. π
June 5th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
marcel white Says:
June 5th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
“I was praying at the abortion clinic…”
You’ve got a typo there, Marcel. Clearly, you meant “preying.”
It is a dark, sordid, exploitative place where mant lives are ended, and others are changed forever.
Obviously, you’ve never been in a women’s clinic, Marcel. They are clean, sterile, well lighted places with supportive healthcare workers who are absolutely anything but exploitative.
‘Course, you can’t come to terms with women controlling their own bodies, so I spoze you’d reckon that women are exploiting themselves when they choose to terminate.
Did I tell you the one about the enthusiastic masturbator who spiked his own drink so he could take himself home and take advantage of himself?
Oh, crap, that was you. π
June 5th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
Happily kartar!
We grrrls are thirsty. The van has a half-full tank and there are recharged batteries for the camera.
June 5th, 2006 at 9:00 pm
Suki – you have half a pack of cigarettes, it’s dark and you’re wearing sunglasses?
June 5th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
…and we hate Illinois nazis π
June 5th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
Suki Says:
June 5th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
…
You know I could gather a big group of grrrls and we could all meet for a round of drinks and we could swap stories.
That is the one and only Marcel-equipped event that I would not only attend, but capture for posterity on video.
Yeah, Marcel…. why don’t you just meet up with Suki and tell her exactly why she shouldn’t be in control of her body?
I wanna see you tell Suki just how wrong she is. I REALLY do.
Then I wanna see how you’re going in 6 months time when you finally get cut out of that body cast. π
June 5th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
I can’t keep him all to myself weez, the grrrls really want to meet with marcel white- the gatekeeper of all uteri…
June 5th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
Suki, I reckon it’d be mighty fine to catch up with the feller who’s been ticking the boxes (so to speak) for lo these many years.
Now, let’s see, Suki… when you were 16, Marcel wasn’t yet so much as perforated prophylactic. And yet he has the right to tell you how to operate your FFFFFFFFagina?
Oh, you can’t believe how much I wanna see this partcular kaffeeklatsch.
June 5th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
Happy to catch up with anyone and everyone in Sydney. Life is short, and eternity is long. I want to have met as many people as possible this time around…
I’m sorry not to have extended the invitation to you Suki, very ungentlemanly of me. In answer to your question, no I am not intimidated by you Suki, I think you have a good heart and I hope that one day it will be put to work for the one who created you. Anyway, be in Sydney from thurs to sun weekend after next, it sounds like I may need to pray to st michael to avoid being seriously injured… cool
June 5th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
Hmm if God is omnipotent surely he/she/it wouldn’t need Suki? Oh, wait. It’s all taken on FAITH. I keep forgetting to suspend disbelief.
June 5th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
marcel,
I’m not surprised that you will pray instead of research before our meeting. Belief versus evidence is such a ‘stuck’ way of thinking.
June 5th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
marcel white Says:
June 5th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
I hope that one day it will be put to work for the one who created you.
Umm… Marcel, I can absolutely guarantee you that Suki had two creators- not one.
…and one of them was a woman.
Kid you not.
By the way young man, now that you know that much, perhaps you need a little talk about Santa Claus, the Tooth Faerie, the Easter Bunny and other closely related cartoon characters like Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ.
June 6th, 2006 at 8:10 am
Marcel drinks BEER?! Doesn’t he know that alcohol kills his God-given brain cells?
Won’t someone please think of the brain cells?
Anyone?
June 6th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
kartar’s “before and after photos” made me laugh till I coughed thanks.
We are all giving the papist virgin far too much of the attention he thrives on.
I dream of a future where all men who inseminate must also share every bit of physical horror as their child’s vessel; plus the social deprivation and the employment limitations, and are prevented from ever abandoning their children and spouse for that younger homewrecker (of whom there are so many – and half of them papists too).
get fucked Marcel – the world will look so different when your victim tells you she is knocked up.
June 6th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
Brownie – I agree but there are just so many excellent arguments against his position. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
Marcel – actually Brownie raises an interesting point – perhaps you should look up ‘workhouse’ on Wikipedia. They were the by-product of the unwanted children of the poor or those otherwise unable to raise their children. How do you intend to solve the social problems introduced by this alleged 100,000 a year new children – especially as many of them would be unwanted by their parents? It’s all well and good sprouting theological (though I quiver at even using a word containing ‘logic’) and allegedly ethical rationales for being pro-life but what about practical social and economics ideas for the welfare of these children? Or will God just provide?
June 6th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Brownie,
I thank you!
You say everything that needs to be said!
June 7th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
Brownie, you like to use bad behaviour to justify worse behaviour. Your post sounds like: “we need abortion because men are untrustworthy and selfish, employers are monsters and papists are immoral.” in short, you cannot defend abortion in its own right, you’d rather chase after straw men arguments.
abortion allows men to exploit women. it allows men to have sex without consequences, after all they won’t have the doctor invading their body to remove the baby. it allows men to ‘cover their tracks’, especially in those homewrecking situations you talk about. it is no wonder that every survey points to men being more supportive of unrestricted abortion than women. your feminist foremothers all opposed abortion because they saw it was a tool used to oppress women. just take india and china, female babies being aborted far more often just for being female.
you are emotional, irrational and upset when you advocate for abortion brownie. i think your own comments bring you undone and prove there is nothing more demeaning to femininity than abortion.
June 7th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Marcel, please open your own blog so I can say this there:
NONE of us are ‘advocating’ abortion. We are all raging against those who demand that terminations not be available for those poor women who really really want/need one. The child when born, is always the victim.
When I was a teenager in the Sixties, I was impregnated by a popstar who said ‘fatherhood is not my image’ and gave me $120 and the name of a doctor in Balwyn for a termination.
I had the child of course, with nothing to eat for 3 days prior, the gas cut off and the power, the rent behind and nowhere to turn.
Are you playing with your horrible little catholic dick while you read this truth? Don’t tell me about ‘demeaning’ until you have given birth as a charity patient at the Royal Womens Hospital. I know bloody demeaning you twerp.
June 7th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Your story, which I appreciate you sharing, should bring you to the pro-life perspective. A child IS more important than the bills, and life does go on, albeit changed, after giving birth.
I am a ‘twerp’ with life experience as well Brownie. I don’t claim to have been faced with your situation. My mother’s pregnancy with me was unplanned, and also ruined the best laid plans. Most of the people around her were not satisfied on the idea of little Marcel. Mum was single and so distraught that the adoption papers were ordered (but never used).
On New Years eve last year I rocked a child to sleep in my arms as the clock went past midnight (the firecrackers nearly undid all my hard work). She is the child of a very close friend of mine. This friend was raped by a stranger in a park at night and fell pregnant. She went to the abortion clinic but changed her mind. Her little girl is so beautiful. I guess our experiences on issues shape the way we think; my experiences have certianly led me to see all life is sacred (and it has been a journey, I probably used to agree with you guys)…. cool
June 7th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
marcel, ok let me say it all again.
Women have reproductive rights.
Abortion happens make it safe.
You need to undersatnd that you have no legitimate access to, or influence over any woman’s choice.
June 7th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Suki – I wouldn’t bother – he never engages on any argument of substance. He’s a kid – he just repeats the same tired ‘God doesn’t like it’ line. It’s the easiest form of debate – hands over ears – “La la la la la”.
June 7th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Brownie, my friend, this is for you.
June 7th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Definition time:
New York Minute – noun.
1) Amount of time it takes for driver behind you to blow horn after traffic signal turns green.
2) Amount of time a person of average intelligence believes Marcel White’s ‘comfort of rape victim’s child’ story before internal bullshit alarms begin sounding at 130db.
June 9th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
I have relatives by marriage, Sri Lankan Catholics who aren’t thrilled by abortion but instead of abusing young women outside clinics, they decided to help children. They now run an orphanage in Sri Lanka caring for children and babies and copping a dose of discrimination for their religious beliefs as well.
So why are you sitting on your duff Marcel, instead of out there, looking after those babies you want us to have whether we like it or not.
As for ‘abortion allowing men to exploit women’, that’s very funny, like they need an excuse.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
take it however you want weez, i dont have to lie. feel free to tune out to inconvenient truths. its your body, your choice to read what you want.
jahteh, you are very presumptuous to assume pro-lifers dont help women in crisis pregnancy. the group i pray with outside the abortion clinic have paid off mortgages, given large no interest loans, clothes, thousands of hours of babysitting, tuition fees and other financial/spiritual/emotional support. i am willing to do anything in my power to make life easier for a woman who mistakenly feels she has no choice other than abortion… a little persons life is at stake afer all.
so if someone you know needs help, then im more than happy to do what i can. not as some show to prove my consistency on the issue, but because any decent human being should…
June 9th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
marcel white said,
” its your body, your choice…”
FINALLY marcel gets it!
June 9th, 2006 at 11:29 pm
Fat chance, Suki.
Marcel, I’d believe you volunteer for childcare- if you only didn’t spend so much time wanking off around here and on other blogs’ comments… But to be deadly honest, any woman who leaves her child in the care of a dedicated bachelor such as yourself would seriously need her head examined.
June 10th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
I’m probably presumptuous where you’re concerned Marcel because while I wouldn’t call you a liar, I would say I don’t believe you.
June 11th, 2006 at 8:45 am
JT, it isn’t when we suspect veracity that we fail to believe.
spade = spade
liar = liar
July 8th, 2006 at 11:40 am
[…] Abbott’s entire way of being is built around authoritarian and paternalistic structures. Abbott wasn’t silly enough to use the word ‘paternalism’ back when he was losing the RU486 debate, but that was clearly his starting point. […]